High tail versus low tail

[Gary Frink]

Just wondering if the high tail while pointing is a learned trait. I know while training other pointing dogs i always stroked there tail to the high position which i like. Can this work with this type of setter? I see most are tail horizontal or below while pointing. Just wondering is all.

[Firelight Setters]

Hi Gary.  Although tail carriage and position can be modified a little through “styling”, tail set or position is a function of the skeletal and muscular build.  The ryman-type setter is bred to have level tail set and associated musculature because it results in a longer, smoother gait which enhances stamina and endurance which is desired by hunters who choose this type of setter.   So the short answer to your question is, no, you cannot stroke or train the tail of a ryman up to a 12 o’clock position and in fact, a 12 o’clock tail on this type of setter is considered undesirable by most ryman-type breeders/owners.   George Ryman, who was the originator of this type of setter, bred for dogs whose tails were set and carried either level with the back or a little above because that conformation lends itself to the smooth, efficient gait of an all-day hunting dog.  He did not follow the trends fancied by the field trial community, including the 12 o’clock, straight up tail nor the bouncy, short-strided gait.

This old photo is of a dog whom G. Ryman felt was the ideal for his breeding, the wording was his own:

I hope this was helpful in answering your question.

 

 

[Gary Frink]

Thank you very much… I kind of figured the 12 o’clock position was not acceptable but a little above horizontal looks nice to me.  Like the picture on Aroostook Setters picture.

[Firelight Setters]

Our Breeder Members here at RS are wild bird hunters and focus on the field ability and talent of our dogs, not the appearance.  As long as the tail position on point is consistent for the type, most breeders or owners don’t focus on tails like trial folks do.   Some prefer a very straight, level tail while others are fine if the tail dips below the topline.  I personally may be a bit unusual within the ryman-type community in that my ideal is a 10+ o’clock tail and it is seen in many/most of my dogs.  But still, it is the overall hunting ability of my dog that is my focus, not how they look.  I also have seen training impact tail position.  Ryman-types are a gentler, softer type of setter and over doing the pressure or number pen birds in training can result in a dog lowering or dropping its tail.

This is an example of a tail that I like in my personal dogs.  Thanks for your posts, we always love talking setters.

[Gary Frink]

That is the look i like. I enjoy watching the dog more than shooting the birds. It is a pleasure to watch a dog do its thing. So having a dog that pleases my eye is important to me just as much as the hunting part. I have noticed some of GBE dogs as well had the tail posture like yours as well. Thanks for your input. Much appreciated…

[Daniel Gregory]

The straight-line tail seems to be the accepted standard for bench English setters, and so be it. It just looks better, especially the view from behind. The argument that it’s easier to spot the dog if its tail is high has less merit in the GPS age. Its easier to spot a white dog too, but there’s a downside to that as well. So all things equal, give me a dog with a flatter tail.

 

[Thunder Bay Setters]

All things being equal, does the dog stand still when it smells a bird, does it listen when I speak, the rest is window dressing IMO
Paul

[Thunder Bay Setters]

Low tail

[Thunder Bay Setters]

Vs. high tail….. which dog is best.

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